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主题:【原创】为什么饱受列强蹂躏之苦的中国还有那么多人支持甚至欣赏以色列 -- q42474112

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家园 对我的观点回复的回复

首先谢谢鲜花支持,以及诸位朋友对我观点的补充。

同时谢谢浮萍叶网友关于真主党的指正。在查了wiki,

Hezbollah(真主党)

提到:

Civilian activities

Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings but also organises an extensive social development programme. This civilian wing runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon.[13][52] The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools, and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care provided through Hezbollah is also less expensive than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.[9] Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programmes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually.[9]

支持了浮萍叶网友提供的数据。在这一点上我没有调查就做出了指控,是我的偏见造成。

在承认我的错误的同时,请同时注意以下事实:

HOW TO HELP PALESTINIAN REFUGEES TODAY

一文中提到:

Since the signing of the Oslo accord in 1993, the international community has poured upward of five billion dollars into the Palestinian territories - making Palestinians the highest per-capita recipients of development aid. The U.S. has disbursed $80-$120 million annually to the Palestinians since 1994, in addition to an annual $75 million allocation to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) to support refugee programs.

是不是意味着道德上美国也有权对巴勒斯坦的难民进行处置?当然这是个荒谬的问题,给人一碗嗟来之食,并不意味着你有权把别人当消耗品轻轻松松牺牲掉。美国不行,其他伊斯兰兄弟也不行。

我们可以把真主党在黎巴嫩南部对社区的贡献作为他在黎巴嫩南部统治之合法性的基础,那么如何解释在这次中东危机中真主党挑起黎以冲突的责任?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict#Beginning_of_conflict

At 9:05 AM local time (06:05 UTC), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a diversionary Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and on the villages of Even Menahem and Mattat, injuring 5 civilians [16]. At the same time, a ground contingent of Hezbollah attacked two Israeli armored Humvees along the Israel-Lebanon border, near the village of Zar'it, with anti-tank rockets, kidnapping two Israeli soldiers, and killing three.[16]Five others were killed later on the Lebanese side of the border on 12 July during a mission to rescue the two kidnapped soldiers.[17] In a report the Lebanese police force stated that the Israeli soldiers were attacked and "captured" on the Lebanese side of the border on 12 July during a mission to infiltrate the Lebanese town of Ayta al-Sha`b,[18] though the U.N, EU, G8[19], and prominent news agencies[20] have characterized the Hezbollah action as "cross-border". In an interview with The Times on 2 August, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said: "The war started not only by killing eight Israeli soldiers and abducting two, but by shooting Katyusha and other rockets on the northern cities of Israel on that same morning. Indiscriminately."[21]

Hezbollah's attack was named Operation Truthful Promise, after a "promise" by its leader Hassan Nasrallah to kidnap Israeli soldiers and swap them for convicted murderer Samir Kuntar and two other Lebanese prisoners still held by Israel.[22][23] Later on, Hassan Nasrallah declared: “No military operation will return them… The prisoners will not be returned except through one way: indirect negotiations and a trade of prisoners.”[24]

真主党一直坚持彻底消灭以色列为目标,那么这次行动是支持这个战略目标的一部分么?想想真主党自己承认的与伊朗之间的联系(一般估计伊朗对真主党的经济支援每年上百万美元,应为每年$60-$100 million),不难推断其中的动机。这样的动机对黎巴嫩那些炸死的平民一点责任也没有,完全是无辜的么?

 浮萍叶网友的反驳我只有接受,首先这是事实,其次因为我们都接受一个相近的理念,国家、民族和国际政治和伦理之类的东西,都应该有助于更多的人更好的活下去,不论是什么人什么信仰。这应该是我们争论谁是否正义,谁更正义的判决条件。这很势利,但这就是现实。

  我承认,真主党先动手这个事实,并不能给以色列在黎巴嫩制造人道主义灾难,攻击联合国观察员提供一丝一毫的合法性;犹太人拿出千年前的曾居住在这片土地上的证据抢占巴勒斯坦土地的理由相当勉强;那么拿出当初犹太人建国时和当地居民冲突、搞恐怖主义的历史,就可以理直气壮地要求数百万犹太人、以色列国就此消失?这样的理论,就不算偏见?!

 请注意:现在的国家主义、民族主义是产生于近代的概念,是和现代国家的必备条件:认同国家的国民、忠于国家的军队,国家内部统一的法律,周边国家的承认等等一起出现的,对客观现实条件有很多要求的,不是哪个阿猫阿狗都可以一拍脑门就搞出个国家的。国家、民族不是一个绝对的概念,是要有人有地有军队支撑的,不是压倒一切的。

 当清朝日益稳固,老百姓日益安居乐业的时候,在某一个时刻的转折点,“匡扶社稷、反清复明”的英雄就真的变成了破坏社会安定团结的恐怖分子,于是大家就留着耻辱的辫子,低人一等地过了三百年。

 如果当初日本人老老实实经略东北,只用有限的力量怂恿国民党“先安内”,几十年下来,待东北满地都是日本住民,伪满和平归化日本,说不定什么大东亚共荣圈就这真的实现了,汪精卫成了英明神武的开国元勋也未可知。。。。如果日本人的战略智商足够的话,这些真的很可能发生,我们会真的没有什么办法,就如外蒙古一样。

 据说当年抗美援朝的时候,我们的领导人中很多犹豫不决,反对意见不少,是太祖一锤定音。与史上最强帝国开战并胜之,所以太祖是大英雄。这里唯一标准是结果,如果输了,太祖就是穷兵黩武,好大喜功。敢斗并不是英雄的充分条件,否则金胖、萨胖甚至阿扁、东条等等都可以发个“敢斗奖”,连红了眼的小公鸡也可称为“英雄”?

 

 所以不要随便拿抗日和现在的阿以冲突相比:当初我们够努力,够运气,对手够笨,最后赢了才说话不腰疼的本钱。而某些伊斯兰教徒诸如“把犹太人全灭掉,把美国人全灭掉”之类的宏伟目标,除非神他老人家亲自出手,反正我估计是看不到了。

  

 又致q42474112网友:你在别处所说的卫报报道哈马斯承认以色列应该是《卫报》记者的胡扯:

Guardian: Hamas accepts Israel! Hamas: No, we don't!

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